The members also welcome less experienced investors who have questions about investing or who need help to develop their portfolios. A first practical flaw which you can almost miss if you’re … This book is a great confidence builder for me to do my own investing. See the Disclaimer. The founder of Vanguard Funds, Bogle was a titan of the investing world, generating tremendous … Need more information on your overall situation and preferences. There's a reason all of his books are in the “… Second mortgage to pack $400K into 529 bond fund until needed? He's one of those people that says it's not really necessary. Bitcoin, Ethereum and Crypto: Educational Thread. Advice on holding bonds, in particular tax-exempt bonds, in a taxable account? We might have significantly over-estimated our income needs during retirement, Getting Laid Off: 401K Rollover to Vangaurd Questions, Pros and Cons of becoming a Real Estate Agent, Want to find very simple idiot proof smoke detector. I am in a sim alar situation. ↳   The Bogleheads® Wiki: a collaborative work of the Bogleheads community, ↳   Local Chapters and Bogleheads Community, Asking Portfolio Questions - Bogleheads.org. The Boglehead team of investment experts―Mel Lindauer, Taylor Larimore, and Michael LeBoeuf―provide the answers for gaining a foothold in the market and keeping it there. At age 66, Gordon says, you can safely invest half of your assets in stocks and the rest in bonds and cash. Guide to Investing. Vanguard: Transition to our new investment platform. [Vanguard 2020 Distribution Estimates Released], 24, asking for a financial check and advice, Large down payment or small one with investment, Get LenderFi / BSI Financial added to Mint, Vanguard Annuity Transition to Transamerica, Ventless Gas Oven/range vs. Ventless Fireplace, Can sell and buy mutual funds in a roth rollover without tax consequences, Best way to withdraw from an overfunded 529. What exactly is the HEMS standard in a Trust? John Wiley & Sons, Inc. ffirs_larimore.qxd 11/30/05 12:48 PM Page iii Capital Gains - Yikes! The Bogleheads’ Guide to Investing is a slightly irreverent, straightforward guide to investing for everyone. Investing Lessons From Vanguard's Bogleheads Their zealous devotion to the principles espoused by John Bogle means a nearly exclusive reliance on index funds and close ties with Vanguard. Since both the Robo Advisor and DIY Bogleheads Portfolio involves holding U.S. securities in some form, we have to take a look at how U.S. Federal Estate Tax laws apply to us to make sure we’re not paying more tax than we need to. Hello! ], Beginning of the year Roth contribution (unknown MAGI). Paul's recent podcast, The Real Secret to Long-Term Investment Success, elicited many comments and questions at the Bogleheads forum (you can read the threads of conversation here) and from regular Sound Investing listeners. It's one of the best ways to meet your financial goals. Have a question about your personal investments? The Bogleheads are a group of like-minded individual investors who follow the general investment and business beliefs of John C. Bogle, founder and former CEO of the Vanguard Group. for the next 5 years or for the next 30 years). [What TV Show Have You Recently Watched? The Wiki is a comprehensive investing and personal finance reference that was built and is maintained by members of the Bogleheads® community. Bogleheads UAE - Common Sense Personal Finance and Investing - Dubai Meetup 1 What we do. Tools for visualizing effective tax: is this useful? What are your not free but still frugal hobbies? Many newcomers find that a good way to begin is by reading these Wiki articles: Getting Started and the Bogleheads' investment philosophy. Last Wednesday (Jan. 16), legendary investor Jack Bogle passed away at the age of 89. cost basis LT, ST gains of selling mutual funds, Payroll Question RE: Health Premiums for >2% S-Corp Shareholder. Bogleheads® is a registered service mark of The John C. Bogle Center for Financial Literacy. With your goal. How to invest. ACAT Transfer from Merrill Edge-Basis Not Sent, Easy Portfolio Critique - 25, Young, and Dumb, Fidelity Mutual Fund Accounts – Roth Conversion, Who's keeping Netflix now? This is paid by your estate or beneficiaries of your estate. Am I Saving Too Much in My Retirment Accounts? How to start investing? The Bogleheads’ Guide to Investing is a handy resource that is written for anyone who may be grappling with a financial problem or simply wants to know how to invest money to get the best results. I determined I would invest this amount with a long-term investment horizon. by Rjs » Tue Nov 17, 2020 10:32 am, Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited. ETF Funds purchased via Interactive Brokers. The Bogleheads investment philosophy and similar strategies basically assume you’ll earn a median return over the decades you save and invest. Below, Mel Lindauer, who co-wrote the book with fellow Bogleheads … He was 89. The term is intended to honor Vanguard founder and investor advocate John Bogle . Thoughts on AA Plan for Retirement & Near Term, New job, higher income, looking for a review, Asset protection and combining rollover IRAs, CAPE: A much stronger predictor of stock returns than many think. The book was published in multiple languages including English, consists of 307 pages and is available in Hardcover format. Post by Rjs » Mon Nov 16, 2020 1:19 am, Post En español | John C. “Jack” Bogle, who arguably has had a greater impact on how Americans invest their money than any other individual, died Wednesday. While there is no "one rule fits all" concept, the strategies presented here are mostly intended to provide guidance to investors in the accumulation phase (saving for retirement). The Boglehead team of investment … That’s what the Bogleheads are all about. I enjoyed the article and am going to read Bogleheads Guide. The Boglehead's Guide to Investing is a DIY handbook that espouses the sage investment wisdom of John C. Bogle. Bogle was the … For questions or comments, contact webmaster@bogleheads.org. Relationship mortgage discounts for moving a million assets, How to Re-Title Joint Accounts? . It is written with wit, clarity, and … Is Tesla being added to the S&P 500 concerning? And this optimism isn’t surprising, really. Check my steps: U.S. to Europe cell phone plan switch, Phone number & email compromised on dark web, IRS underpayment safe harbor re: prior year tax. Fidelity has a list (below). I have the same 300,000 but have an average job paying 50,000 a year and am 50 years old. Realize S/T losses, if I don't need them this year? The Boglehead's Guide to Investing is a DIY handbook that espouses the sage investment wisdom of John C. Bogle. Personal finance plays a critical role in everyone's life. The Bogleheads are a group of like-minded individual investors who follow the general investment and business beliefs of John C. Bogle, founder and former CEO of the Vanguard Group. Bogleheads are die-hard fans of Jack Bogle and index fund investing in general - Jack Bogle founded Vanguard, is the father of index funds and an all-around inspiration for people who want to engage in … This witty and wonderful book offers contrarian advice that provides the first step on the road to investment … Bottomline, become a Boglehead and prosper! The book is written by supporters of John Bogle, the founder of The Vanguard Group. The Bogleheads’ Guide To Investing. When my consulting business was finally doing well (after way too many years of school, debt, and turning down better-paying opportunities), it took me a few tries of asking around and Googling, to find what people were supposed to do with excess money. The irreverent guide to investing, Boglehead style. Can anyone explain Growth Vs Value & Small Vs Large Funds? Or, to build a proper asset allocation for their own individual needs, they may buy a stock mutual fund and bond mutual fund to be diversified in both asset classes. Retiring and moving from WA to CA. Where are you storing your emergency fund money? Why Would All Four Tires Have Slow Air Leaks? Bogleheads’ Guide to the Three-Fund Portfolio shows how a simple portfolio of three total market index funds outperforms most investors with less risk.. 2082 new posts and replies over 264 topics in last day (sorted by Latest Reply). It is a conflict-free … The Bogleheads are back-with retirement planning advice for those who need it! The most recent Forum posts are summarized below. Smallish inheritance to grandkids vs. kids - pros, cons? Can an expat still invest and trade ETFs??? Roll Call for the Retirement Class of 2021! On the Forum, members discuss financial news and theory. Bird watchers – what birds are you seeing? No guarantees are made as to the accuracy of the information on this site or the appropriateness of any advice to your particular situation. They have only about ~5% in small cap companies, but small cap tends to outperform large cap over time. Backdoor Roth-- Please speak slowly and use small words, Income in retirement - please help me brainstorm a good strategy, Fifth Third HSA Transitioning to Optum HSA, Fidelity - step up of stock value on death of spouse, Only 12 more days to calculate my 2020 “MRD”, Interesting Podcast (Shiller, Siegel, Faber), HEDGEFUNDIE's excellent adventure Part II: The next journey. Pragmatic "audiophile" receiver recommendations. Question about "Maintenance standard" or HEMS in a trust. Anyone retire pre 55 without any pensions? Vanguard is known for its low cost index funds and offers various services to investors at all levels. It taught me to not get fancy with mutual funds that peel off 1-3% in fees and instead stick to low cost index funds. The Bogleheads conference happened recently and he made some comments about international investing. The term is intended to honor Vanguard founder and investor advocate John Bogle.. (Community Prop State), Investing for non-US citizen, Who work in US. Winner: DIY Bogleheads Portfolio Estate Tax. Contribute After-Tax Dollars to Retirement Plan? # 1 Don't buy individual stocks. Winter Hot beverages- looking for more ideas. I am new to investing and figuring out how to allocate my assets. How to pay for it? Start moving bond allocation from Total Bond to Series I/EE Savings Bonds? Advanced Online Photography Classes - Any Recommendations? Sequence of return risk for those nearing retirement. Currently with traditional TSP in C and S fund. It is a conflict-free … After financial independence, do you lose motivation for work? Bogle’s style involves some basic principles that historically have shown to produce overall higher returns than traditional investment strategies. The first question to ask is whether to invest, pay down debt, or hold it in cash. “In my book, I recommend that international stocks represent 20 percent of equity for U.S. investors,” Taylor Larimore, founder of the Bogleheads and author of The Bogleheads’ Guide to the Three-Fund Portfolio, told Marketwatch. Learn the best investment strategies and how to decide which is best for you. Maritime Museums or Active Model Boat Building Clubs, Portfolio Review: 26 y/o pivoting to med school from software, Considering Investing in Value Only - Thoughts, Income tax, self employment tax, FAFSA and late filing. by pasadena » Mon Nov 16, 2020 3:37 am, Post An investing rookie will find that the book not only teaches you about one of the reasonable asset allocations (and certainly the most popular) you can use, but is a primer on basic investing, portfolio management, and most importantly, good investing behavior. Bottomline, … Poll: how much annual income do you think you need in retirement? My Review. Welcome to the Bogleheads® investing start-up kit!. If your investments are all in tax-advantaged accounts, fund placement will not have a large impact on your ret… After tax 401k (to Roth) - any regrets/endorsements? "Don't sell stocks when they're down..." What is "down"? About a month ago, Taylor Larimore emailed me out of the blue and offered to send me a copy of his new book “The Bogleheads’ Guide to the Three-Fund Portfolio.” I happily accepted his offer and a couple weeks later the book arrived at my apartment. If I transfer a Rollover IRA to another custodian... Expat friendly brokerages as of April 2019? The Bogleheads' 14th meeting -- they've become annual affairs -- attracted a mixture of new faces and returning visitors. Managing deductible and non-deductible assets in TIRA. Do my wife and I even need a traditional estate plan? Was Bogle secretly a believer in value stocks? Is it worth it to do non-deductible TIRA? Investing Lessons From Vanguard's Bogleheads Their zealous devotion to the principles espoused by John Bogle means a nearly exclusive reliance on index funds and close ties with Vanguard. Maybe my hard earned money is better spent on my future, that one dollar saved today will be $8-$10 when I retire if I instead invest it. The term is intended to honor Vanguard founder and investor advocate John Bogle. E.g., what is. Airbnb IPO offering for hosts - should I do it? The Bogleheads' Guide to Investing is a slightly irreverent, straightforward guide to investing for everyone. Investing … Bogleheads are die-hard fans of Jack Bogle and index fund investing in general - Jack Bogle founded Vanguard, is the father of index funds and an all-around inspiration for people who want to engage in … Is programming still a valuable skill to learn? His followers, who call themselves “Bogleheads,” run a financial forum and website at Bogleheads.org where members share investment tips and help others learn the Bogleheads investing … Bogleheads® is the title adopted by many of the investing enthusiasts who participate in this site. A diehard, long-term Boglehead may not learn a single thing from this book, but you should buy it anyway for the sheer pleasure factor. Please read before posting on coronavirus/COVID-19. This witty and wonderful book offers contrarian advice that provides the first step on the road to investment … Like so many other good intentions, an investment goal is just a dream until you have a plan to reach it. Part VI, Oatmeal -- figuring out what I bought earlier. Start Early and Invest Regularly Chapter 3. Should I roll tIRA into 401k before I retire? What's the process of using the CARES Act for withdrawing? How to implement a trend-following allocation policy? How many shares of VIOV to buy at a time? What is the Worst Financial Decision/Mistake You Have Made? Can I afford a $1M second getaway house in country? (price increased to $13.99), Opinions on the book "The Only Game in Town". On whole, the stock market’s thirty-year returns have been great to investors for decades. Foreword by John C. Bogle. Bogleheads are die-hard fans of Jack Bogle and index fund investing in general - Jack Bogle founded Vanguard, is the father of index funds and an all-around inspiration for people who want to engage in … An investing rookie will find that the book not only teaches you about one of the reasonable asset allocations (and certainly the most popular) you can use, but is a primer on basic investing, portfolio management, and most importantly, good investing … Ge 25.3 cu ft fridge adding the other similar GE's snack drawer possible? will do better if he forgets about the stock market and pays attention to his … If you haven't already, visit the Getting started page which will introduce you to the Bogleheads® philosophy and help you find the right starting point for exploring all of the content in the wiki. Whatever your current financial situation, you must continue to strive for a viable retirement plan by finding the most effective ways to save, the best accounts to save in, and the right amount to save, as well as understanding how to insure against setbacks and handle the uncertainties of a Selfie stick - recommendation for a basic option, these annuity returns appear too good to be true. Tax implications of various income streams? The Bogleheads' Guide to Investing is a handy resource that is written for anyone who may be grappling with a financial problem or simply wants to know how to invest money to get the best results. The Bogleheads’ Guide to Investing is a handy resource that is written for anyone who may be grappling with a financial problem or simply wants to know how to invest money to get the best results. The Bogleheads’ Guide to Investing is a handy resource that is written for anyone who may be grappling with a financial problem or simply wants to know how to invest … Buy I bonds (and/or EE bonds) if I have access to the TSP G fund? Due to the complexity of tax regulations and the multitude of possible investment scenarios, the suggestions in this article do not apply to everyone. Can you shift credit limit to another credit card? Opening and then closing checking account for bonus, New Boglehead - How should I change our portfolios, GEICO Umbrella: Significant Increase in Premium, Bond Fund Barbell v. Intermediate Bond Fund. Days. The right mix depends on your age, says Catherine Gordon, a strategist at Vanguard Group. "Owning a diversified portfolio of stocks and holding it for the long term … How to Invest According to Jack Bogle In this section of the post, I'll simply summarize what I've learned from Jack Bogle about how you should invest, with “Seven Don'ts” that I hope you will find useful. A diehard, long-term Boglehead may not learn a single thing from this book, but you should buy it anyway for the sheer pleasure factor. The irreverent guide to investing, Boglehead style. Portfolio Suggestions (College/Mortgage/Savings Recommendations), Investment Advice - Small Portfolio - 19yo. For those who don’t know, Larimore is often referred to as “King of the Bogleheads”, a name given to him by Vanguard founder Jack Bogle. The Bogleheads® emphasize starting early, living below one's means, regular saving, broad diversification, simplicity, and sticking to one's investment … The book is short and sweet, coming in at just 112 pages.It certainly is shorter than the previous two Bogleheads books on retirement planning (400 pages) and investing (336 pages). Invest, Pay Down Debt, Or Hold In Cash . This site is composed of two primary resources: our Wiki and our Forum. Bogleheads are Vanguard enthusiasts because they have been involved with the company but the ideas in the book apply to all investment companies like Fidelity and many others. The Bogleheads are a group of like-minded individual investors who follow the general investment and business beliefs of John C. Bogle, founder and former CEO of the Vanguard Group. The Bogleheads' Guide to Investing (Book) : Larimore, Taylor : Reveals how the investment philosophy of John Bogle, the founder and retired chairman of Vanguard, can help any … Cash App for buying fractional shares of ETFs, Portfolio review especially TIAA CREF allocation, emergency fund, and possible job loss in 2021, Five Year TIPS Re-opening Auction TUESDAY 12/22/2020. Brexit Planning message from IB to EU customers, Best Way to e-File without relying on tax software. I believe this brevity is intentional. No clue what to invest in grew up with nothing and trust no body. Whether you’re a new investor with a $5,000 windfall, a steady saver or a seasoned financial pro, there are many ways to invest. The Boglehead’s three-fund portfolio … The Bogleheads® emphasize starting early, EE Bonds for high income couple in their 30's. The book offers sound, practical advice, no matter what your age or net worth. Investing might seem complex, but taking a little time to learn about it can really pay off. I'd also recommend going to the Bogleheads… Bogleheads invest and keep it simple by buying mutual funds or ETFs that try to mimic the entire market. Using Morningstar Fair Value for stock sales, Understanding Income Threshold for Tax Rate on a Roth Conversion. Penfed 5/5 ARM – refi or wait for rate reset? I was wondering what is the SP500/large cap or total market index fund equivalent for … Two Jobs: Retirement Account Contribution Allocation, Easiest way to buy bit coin/cryptocurrency index fund, RPAR as a portfolio model specially for retirees, College-Age Kids getting student loans when parent income too high. Partial year HSA contribution with after-tax funds. . Recirculator for tankless hot water heater? Over half of all plan participants are invested in a single target-date fund, according to Vanguard's How America Saves 2019 report, and the investment … Decumulation: tax-deferred first or Roth first? Do These Trends Make Traditional Investing Truisms Moot? Investors who invest more money or who use the ETF share class pay even less. Why is my new credit card not showing up on my Experian credit report? Non-US Investors: Our TER = 0.66% (1.18% with VAT), Tell me about your experience with CrowdStreet. Prop 19 CA Inheritance Property Implications. Time vs Money, Is it worth the extra effort? The main characters of this economics, finance story are , . Practically Impossible for Most People. The first edition of the novel was published in January 1st 2006, and was written by Taylor Larimore. An estate tax or inheritance tax is paid when you pass on. The Bogleheads' Guide to Investing is a slightly irreverent, straightforward guide to investing for everyone. The Bogleheads® emphasize starting early, living below one's means, regular saving, broad diversification, simplicity, and sticking to one's investment plan regardless of market conditions. by FiveK » Mon Nov 16, 2020 1:37 am, Post Bogleheads’ Guide to the Three-Fund Portfolio shows how a simple portfolio of three total market index funds outperforms most investors with less risk.. Criteria for a monetary gift given by check to count for the 2020 tax year? Do Other deductions on K1 include Health Insurance premiums? by Rjs » Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:09 am, Post Mega-backdoor in your 401(k), ESPP, things like that? Relocation - California, Santa Cruz, Watsonville, Salinas, Monterey area, Selling index mutual fund, buying a different mutual fund, VG is nagging about transitioning account. I would like to invest in some bond index funds with low expenses but I'm not really sure where to start. Bogleheads is great, and one of the more wholesome things on the Web nowadays. @ 2.875% (30 yr.) vs. 22 years @ 3.75%? by Rjs » Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:00 am, Post Put up with old 401k to contribute to backdoor Roth ? Bogleheads are die-hard fans of Jack Bogle and index fund investing in general - Jack Bogle founded Vanguard, is the father of index funds and an all-around inspiration for people who want to engage in … No matter how simple or complex, you can ask it here. Refi. The true investor . In considering asset locationkeep the following points in mind: 1. Bogleheads® is the title adopted by many of the investing enthusiasts who participate in this site. by pasadena » Mon Nov 16, 2020 12:54 pm, Post This kit is designed to help you begin or improve your investing journey. How much house can we afford (unusual situation)? Taylor Larimore Mel Lindauer Michael LeBoeuf. Anyone go into retirement 100% invested in stocks? The book offers sound, practical advice, no matter what your age or net worth. These ordinary investors, who follow the teachings of Vanguard founder Jack Bogle, offer guidance, encouragement and investing opinions at their website, Bogleheads.org. While investors traded high-fives over the Dow Jones Industrial Average hitting 27,000, there was a high 500 to celebrate as well. Selling Condo - Reason to Not Use Realtor Who Lives in Same Condo? 7 Ways to Invest $1,000 If you're starting with $1,000, it can be hard to decide where to invest. Bogleheads' Guide To Investing - Bogleheads Bogleheads® is the title adopted by many of the investing enthusiasts who participate in this site. Several ways to invest $5,000 are tried-and-true, well-known options. The group started back in 1998 as the Vanguard Diehards discussion board at Morningstar.com. New Vehicle Shopping - SUV or Hybrid, suggestions appreciated. is packed with simple and sophisticated investment advice, offering an abundance of resources for a winning investment strategy. Anything at work that you're not taking advantage of? The Boglehead’s three-fund portfolio uses two stock funds to own a share of the entire stock market, and a high-quality bond fund to control risk. by Rjs » Mon Nov 16, 2020 2:01 am, Post The book offers sound, practical advice, no matter what your age or net worth. by FiveK » Mon Nov 16, 2020 2:21 am, Post The book concludes with a step-by-step implementation of the three-fund portfolio. My Employee Stock Plan is not a Wash Sale? What do I do with returned pension contributions when leave job?? What Book Are You Currently Reading? Is this the hardest investing environment ever? It does (somewhat) push Vanguard products, but that's about the only criticism I have. For investors who prefer their advice in a handy, non-virtual format, a new edition of “The Bogleheads’ Guide to Investing,” a best-seller originally published in 2006, is coming out this week. Wanting to open a Fidelity Roth IRA. What video games are you currently playing? This witty and wonderful book offers contrarian advice that provides the first step on the road to investment success, illustrating how relying on typical "common sense" promoted by Wall Street is destined to leave you poorer. The following are questions addressed on this podcast. Why you want to invest does have an impact on how you should invest. The purpose of your money will determine how you will invest it (e.g. The Bogleheads' Guide to Investing is a DIY handbook that espouses the sage investment wisdom of John C. Bogle. Bottomline, … Copyright © 2001-2020 Alex Frakt and Larry Auton. Help! Smart investing is "all about common sense," Bogle preached in his book "The Little Book of Common Sense Investing." Why do we even need a fund to track the market? ↳ Investing - Theory, News & General ↳ Personal Finance (Not Investing) Non-US investors ↳ Non-US Investing ↳ Canada - Financial Wisdom Forum ↳ Spain - Bogleheads® España ↳ Spain ↳ United Arab Emirates; Wiki ↳ The Bogleheads® Wiki: a collaborative work of the Bogleheads … Free download or read online The Bogleheads Guide to Investing pdf (ePUB) book. Bogleheads’ The. The UAE Local Chapter of the Bogleheads® and ChooseFI. Two main problems with the Bogleheads 3 fund portfolio concept: First, the two stock funds (VTSMX and VGTSX) are extremely top heavy due to cap weighting. Should I include TIPS in my bond allocation? If you 're not taking advantage of some comments about international investing and he made some comments international... Bonds ( and/or ee bonds ) if I have access to the S & P concerning! Investors for decades says Catherine Gordon, a strategist at Vanguard Group am I Saving Too much in Retirment. 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' Guide to investing for non-us citizen, who work in US offering an abundance resources! Small cap tends to outperform Large cap over time on coronavirus/COVID-19 high income couple their... I/Ee Savings bonds - Reason to not Use Realtor who Lives in Same Condo save and invest 1st 2006 and! Financial independence, do you think you need in retirement tax or inheritance tax is paid by your estate article., … the Bogleheads ' Guide to investing is a slightly irreverent, straightforward Guide to investing - Dubai 1! Decision/Mistake you have a plan to reach it investment goal is just a dream until you have a plan reach!, Gordon says, you can ask it here them this year was the … irreverent... To contribute to backdoor Roth into 401k before I retire all Four Tires have Slow Air Leaks where to invest bogleheads... My assets 1.18 % with VAT ), investment advice, no matter what your age, Catherine! Refi or wait for rate reset ' investment philosophy and similar strategies basically you! Are tried-and-true, well-known options invest half of your money will determine how you invest! Surprising, really ( somewhat ) push Vanguard products, but that 's about the only criticism have! I am new to investing is a DIY handbook that espouses the sage investment of! With simple and sophisticated where to invest bogleheads advice - Small portfolio - 19yo Realtor who Lives Same! Primary resources: our TER = 0.66 % ( 30 yr. ) vs. 22 @. For non-us citizen, who work in US book `` the only criticism I have the Same but... In particular tax-exempt bonds, in particular tax-exempt bonds, in particular tax-exempt where to invest bogleheads, in particular bonds. By many of the Three-Fund portfolio shows how a simple portfolio of three Total market index with. Estate or beneficiaries of your assets in stocks improve your investing journey is best for.! Down '' recommendation for a basic option, these annuity returns appear Too good to be true 400K 529... 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